tv Greta Van Susteren FOX News July 12, 2013 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT
i want to thank you for -- i'll give you a hand for being here with us. and that is all the time we have left this evening. let not your heart be it's up to six women, the fate of george zimmerman now in the hands of the six-women jury. earlier today, both sides getting one last chance to plead to the jury. >> the reality of what happened is very straightforward. and it proves absolute innocence. do you think for a second that if trayvon martin had seen that gun ever, there would be a gunshot at 90 degrees in the center of his chest? >> one piece of evidence. just one i ask for, just one piece of evidence that supports that contention. where is it? >> if that defendant had done only what he was supposed to do,
see and call, none of us would be here. could have beens don't belong in this courtroom. proof beyond a reasonable doubt trayvon martin may have the defendant's blood on his hands, but george zimmerman will forever have trayvon martin's blood on his. >> at that moment, george zimmerman shooting trayvon martin, what other option did he have? to the living we owe respect. but to the dead, we owe the truth. >> the person who decided that this is going to continue, that it was going to be coming to a violent event was a guy who didn't go home when he had the chance to. four minutes to do what? to walk home. to run home. four minutes is the amount of time that trayvon martin had. >> in the end, this case is not
about standing your ground. it's about staying in your car. >> i almost wish that the verdict had guilty, not guilty and completely innocent. i would ask you to check that one. >> for the latest in the courtroom, fox orlando reporter, holly bristow joins us. holly? >> what a day. definitely an interesting day today in the courtroom. the defense had their chance to wrap up the case and present their closing arguments. they used an interesting animation one they fought hard to use. which started with the two men walking up the sidewalk. their version of what happened. which was trayvon martin punching george zimmerman in the face and then little by little, you would see these people animate up to their windows looking out. they weaved in the 911 call. it seemed to be an interesting way to weave every single witness that they had. they might have had slightly differing accounts, it told the story of what george zimmerman said happened that night.
i think that was probably pretty effective with the jury. the defense was also very big on saying don't listen to your common sense, don't listen to common sense, you really need to think about this case, which is not what the prosecution said at all. meanwhile, when the prosecution had their chance to rebuttal on the closing arguments today, they were adamant about turning trayvon martin into a child. this was a child walking home from the store. this was a child who probably thought that this man that was follow him was creepy. that is a child's worst nightmare. he was just trying to get home and he got killed. use your common sense. there's a man with a gun and a child walking home from the store with skittles. >> tell me, the prosecutors, the defense lawyers they had a game face. is word leaking out how either side feels? >> when you saw and the audience should know that the jury came back shortly after they started deliberating and asked a
question. you could just see everybody was at the edge of their seats, like oh, my gosh, do we have a verdict? no. they just wanted a catalog of the evidence to try to be able to go through all that evidence. more than 100 pieces of it in some sort of logical order and then at 6:00 tonight or right before 6:00 tonight, as you know, they said hey guys, we want to go home. >> i was surprised. were you? >> not really. >> i thought they would deliberate longer. i wasn't surprised that there wasn't a verdict, i was surprised they went home so early because they had been such hard workers. >> they have been cooped up for three weeks with strangers that they've gotten to know. three of the newest buddies left the island that they've been on. they're down to six. this is the first time they've been able to talk about this case. i would imagine that there was an overwhelming feeling of emotion among these people that are finally able to talk about every crazy thing that we've seen go on in that courtroom and everything that we've been dissecting day by day and this
is their first time to talk about it among the jury. >> holly, thank you. today, zimmerman's mark o'mara talking to jurors for almost three hours. >> i call this case the bizarro case in my practice because it sometimes seems like it's turned upside down to me. not saying you should agree with that, but just a perspective that i've had in this case. how many could have beens have you heard from the state in this case? how many what ifs have you heard from the state in this case? well, they don't -- i don't think anyway, they don't get to ask you that. so let's talk about my burden to prove to you beyond a reasonable doubt of his innocence at the risk of confusing you, i'm going to request that you not allow me to confuse you as to the standard.
but i want to show you what the evidence has shown concerning my client's absolute, beyond question, beyond a reasonable doubt innocence. >> so how did o'mara do? joining us, our legal panel in washington, bernie grim in san francisco, jim hammer and here in sanford, florida, ted williams and diana tennis. >> ted, i almost i think i probably had a stroke as a defense lawyer when i heard the defense lawyer say let's talk about my burden of proof to you of beyond a reasonable doubt of innocence. shifting the burden and saying he has to prove innocence, i almost fell over my seat. >> i mean, i think every lawyer in the courtroom had that same kind of response, gretd a. i was in the courtroom as you know. there were two fighters, puj lists in that courtroom today. o'mara was very laid back. >> that can be code for boring
and not drawing the jurors' attention. i'm just saying there are two ways to look at that. >> there's that word boring. he's less animated, but john guy, i believe he knocked it out of the park. what he did was he kept using the word child versus grown man. the reason he was using child because you've got all women on that jury and you have most of them are mothers. it was amazing. >> let's get back to the point of the innocence. i'm sure bernie grimm loved hearing the defense lawyer talking about proving the innocence. let me remind the viewers, the defense doesn't have to prove anything, it's the prosecution's verdict. >> greta, you raised this point two weeks ago. if the jury goes back, it would have been my argument if i'm representing zimmerman. i'm not being critical of o'mara. he's a very good lawyer but this shocked me. you say to the lawyer, if you don't know what happened, if you're confused, then that is a reasonable doubt.
jury instructions can be very confusing for jurors. in the midst of all this, you're going to say let me show you how i've proved beyond a reasonable doubt that he acted in self-defense. yes, it's a bizarro case. you made it that way by assuming this burden and the state must have said whoo, wasn't that great, somebody else has to prove something because we can't prove it. >> diana? >> i don't agree at all. mark o'mara is known in this town as the savant of closing arguments. i thought it was brilliant. he went in fearing a compromised verdict of manslaughter. here's what he has created. not guilty is now the compromised verdict. he has told them, we have taken it beyond not guilty. you don't have to feel bad about coming back not guilty. i'm inviting you, if you want to send a message, you write in innocent on the bottom of that verdict form if you feel strongly about t i thought it was brilliant. >> it puts the defense lawyer on offense to satisfy a burden that he doesn't have that the jury now wants.
>> yet, he came so much closer to satisfying that burden with facts and evidence. >> it's not his burden. >> the proof will be in the pudding. >> he wanted to say that if there's any confusion, the defense wins a deadlock because the prosecution has the burden of proof. except for the one i have. >> i think he made that very, very, very clear. he said, go back and talk about self-defense first. if you have a reasonable doubt about self-defense, we win. they have to disprove it beyond a reasonable doubt. i thought he did a great job. >> tim? >> first of all, it's a huge mistake, period. in the peterson trial which i covered and we talked about almost ten years ago now, the defense said we're going to prove to you who the real killers are. it didn't work out so well in that case. it's a terrible idea for the defense -- >> facts on their side. >> i know it was a different case. it was a mistake in that case as well. what o'mara is doing, he lost the fight over the jury instructions, so the jury will get this chance at manslaughter. he's deathly afraid of it.
he's creating a burden like it's a huge mistake. i think the prosecution zeroed in on a young boy, man is dead. they will want to find him guilty of something i think. >> let me tell you what i think o'mara did very well. his dramatic pause. he stopped talking for four minutes, trying to convince that trayvon martin had time to run home instead of sticking around and confronting zimmerman. >> to do what? to walk home? to run home? four-minute mile was broken when i was like 12 by somebody. i think it was in his teens. don't know if he played football. if he was a defensive guy on the football team, but i do know that you can run a mile in about four minutes if you're in decent shape. so we know that with the opportunity to go home that he
did not. four minutes is not the amount of time that trayvon martin had to run home. four minutes is the amount of time that trayvon martin had left on his life. >> bernie, you know, if the jury believes that it was four minutes between the time that trayvon martin said that he was going -- he was on the telephone and the time of the first gunshot, if that four-minute period he had plenty of time to run home. that's what someone does in fear, runs home. someone not in fear, an aggressor sticks around. i thought that was an effective point. >> it's very good. you got to watch metaphors with the juries. he said somebody in pretty good shape can run a four-minute mile. i'm in great shape. i've never gotten close to that. the guy he was looking for, you should know this stuff. it was roger banister, putting all that aside in more confusion to the jury, it's a very long time, greta. especially in this day and age, where you have ipads and blanc
berries, you can get information in a snap. four minutes is a long time. what happened during that gap i thought he did a convincing job of. >> but greta, trayvon martin didn't have to run a damn place. he was the aggressor in the four minutes. >> here's the problem. he's not there to testify, trayvon martin. you have to use evidence, circumstantial evidence from the outset and try to figure it out. if someone is in fear, 30 yards, that's where you run when you're in fear. if you're sticking around because you want to take on someone, you stick around. >> i think that's moran assumption. >> you disagree with that? >> that doesn't mean that trayvon had to run home. >> i'm not sago owe but if you're looking for reasonable inferences, that is a more likely reasonable inference. >> it's four minutes that he didn't go home. the inference is what he was doing. the thing is, the state, all
they have is the angel, demon, good versus evil, light/dark dichotomy with no factual basis on either side. i think the defense is doing a great job of saying you don't know anything about either of these people. i'm just saying there's four minutes he could have been laying in wait. you think this guy was hunting. there's really no evidence of evilness on either side but at some point only one of them got physically hurt before the gunshot. i thought it was a good point. >> by the prosecution's count, zimmerman is making lie after lie and looking for addresses when in fact the evidence suggests that he was following him. you've got injuries which the prosecution argues doesn't match his story. you have the m.e. saying it wasn't consistent with a pounding on the concrete. it totally loses the prosecution's case. >> except a lie undermines your version. that's the problem. it may not prove a -- >> here's the steps the jury has
to take -- the jury -- you're right, they have to make a step. why did he lie? if they found he lied, he had to make up the self-defense case. >> i agreed with you, jim. i said it undermined credibility. i agreed. >> thank you. >> you're not used to me agreeing with you. >> no. i'm frankly, shocked. i'm the only prosecutor. i'm kind of shocked. thank you. >> now to o'mara explaining zimmerman's message to his wife right after the shooting. >> drops the phone, his wife gets it and says words to the effect, your husband has been involved in a shooting. and what's the response from george zimmerman? he told his wife he wasn't the one shot. unusual, inappropriate? somebody calls up and says honey i was involved in a car accident. what's your first response? are you okay?
you don't even say is the other person okay? it's just not natural. >> jim, i thought that was the missed opportunity yesterday to show and to go after the prosecutor as intentionally misleading the jury and undermining the prosecutor. today the sort of flack response. >> greta? >> the lawyers -- >> what? >> the lawyers should be lucky, you aren't armed with a taser or bean bag. you would have shot every lawyer and judge. they don't object, they let people misstate the evidence. it's a huge missed opportunity. you and i were there yesterday. they stood up embarrassed the prosecutor, that opportunity was lost in this case. >> absolutely. >> i will say one thing in defense of all of them, the prosecutor, the defense and the judge. it's a lot easier for me to sit on the sidelines and do potshots than be in the arena. i have been there and i totally understand. we're never going to really know that voice that's screaming for help on the 911 call, but here is how george zimmerman's lawyer
explains it. >> i found out that there was a 911 call with somebody screaming on it, it was game over. figure out who it is and then we're done. if i could get this to whoever, fbi, let's say, do a little comparison and we're done. you heard from dr. knack sony and unfortunately, it couldn't be done. now we don't know. now, as was suggested, now you do get to decide, i guess, or not of course, or not, you just simply get to decide that you can't decide. who gets the benefit of that? mr. zimmerman. ted? strong point for the defense if they can't decide. dueling mothers, fathers. >> if you've got it and there's a benefit of a doubt, it goes to the defense. >> unless, of course, i may say sarcastically that you decide the defense has a burden of
proof. let me say with sarcasm. >> i don't know why they want to undertake that burden. >> the only thing that i would say about that, i thought the defense pretty definitively proved whose voice it was. i was a little surprised they didn't own that more firmly. i don't know how you compare those two sets of witnesses plus the other facts. to me, it was obvious it was george zimmerman's voice. >> i don't think because you've got the deceased's mother in the courtroom is so convinced that that's her son's voice. if you do own it, you're basically saying she doesn't know her own son's voice. it's polite. tactically -- if a jury would appreciate it more. bernie? >> yeah. the defense had openings here that you could drive a truck through. i was waiting for today to the disadvantage of all my clients who pay me and i pay my mortgage, waiting for this to happen, which is -- and yesterday he said that -- zimmerman said he just killed somebody. absolutely false and in closing, it's very critical that you
still have the jury's trust and. today, i agree, it was my client's voice. there's no speculation about it. of course, there's a different sort of thing going on in the jury room, which is guilty, not guilty and then someone says oh, no, he said check the box innocent. i'm never going to shut up about that. >> at least you are right now. we need to take a break, bernie. we have lots more to talk about. but first tonight's hot button issue on greta wired.com. was defense attorney o'mara's four minutes of silence an effective way to prove his point or over the top courtroom stunt. vote in our poll. did the lawyer go too far with the cross-examination of mrs. martin. also the florida community is now bracing for the verdict. will it spark protest, even violence. right now, no one knows and of
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people asked why you question her. how dare you question the mom of a passed away 17-year-old. doctors cut people sometimes when they do their work and that was something that i had to present to you, just something about how it happened and why it happened and impact and how moms think about these things, both
sides. because i know that both moms believe with their heart, with their soul that that was their son screaming for help. you have to. you want to. it's just the way you get through it. >> today zimmerman's defense lawyer explained the questioning of trayvon martin's mother. daryl park joins us. nice to see you. >> thank you for having me. >> sometimes they won't question the mother of a young man who died or a boy. were you satisfied with the way mark o'mara explained why he kronlged her? >> i don't think he should have called her. nonetheless, it was his decision. i think he'll pay for that decision in that he tried to compare himself to a doctor. probably one of the wisest things a doctor sometimes has to decide is not to cut.
and not to have a surgery. not everyone is a good candidate. but that was his decision. i think that his decision was pretty insensitive. there's some question of especially what hope she maintains. i think it really took a lot out of her to maintain her composure. and to answer his questions. >> what did she say afterwards? >> she was not happy. but maybe that was his intent not to make her happy. her answering that question meant nothing to this case. brought nothing of value of determines whether or not george zimmerman was innocent or guilty for the crime charged with. >> sometimes at least my experience in the courtroom is that i ask a clumsy question, i can do it on the air, one i regret later or especially in the courtroom. maybe it was clumsy and he's got to represent his client right there. >> i don't think it's anything
to do with asking that question. sometimes lawyers, we have egos and pushes us too far when probably the smart thing to do is be strategic, respectful and win your case on a point, not like that point meant nothing and in relation to the innocence or guilt of his client. >> all right. trayvon's mother got up there today and walked out of the courtroom and i believe there's autopsy pictures on the screen. it was that sort of planned or given notice that that was going to happen? coming up? what was -- >> most of the trial we have had some notice when the pictures are going up. today no notice of the fact they're going up and say, too, she has every night not to be there. >> i didn't mean it that way. i was not critical of her and only curious if -- the procedure here. was the heads up was given to the family. that was only -- >> part of the -- i didn't think of that. >> okay. >> i think most of the time she
has got up or out of the courtroom, i would take her out when i thought she needed a break, i would tap her out. and based on our advice to her. >> right. and tonight, have you had a chance to talk to her tonight now that the jury has the case? >> she's very tired, very weary. but she remains strong and is very, very much looking forward to receiving this verdict for the death of her child. >> you know, it's -- you know, nobody wins. i mean -- >> there are no winners. >> zimmer doesn't win. martin family doesn't win. it's a verdict tomorrow, whatever day it's going to be very painful for a lot of people. >> very. >> daryl, thank you very much. >> thanks for having me. >> coming up, from the night of the deadly encounter right through closing arguments, the case sparking controversy. the major events as they happened and the spotlight on judge nelson. >> is there anything else we
needed to take up tonight? >> now that we have moved to friday, does it not make sense to start closings friday morning and then get all the closings in in one day? >> no. i told you the schedule i wanted because it raised sense to me. >> raising eyebrows. the panel will talk about that coming up. hey, buddy? oh, hey, flo. you want to see something cool? snapshot, from progressive. my insurance company told me not to talk to people like you. you always do what they tell you? no... try it, and see what your good driving can save you. you don't even have to switch. unless you're scared. i'm not scared, it's... you know we can still see you. no, you can't. pretty sure we can... try snapshot today -- no pressure.
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neighborhood. they say it's such a quiet neighborhood and they say that the gunman was a member of their neighborhood watch. >> he walked out the house to go to the store. he was going to the store. >> i don't know why they're yelling help. i don't know. okay. send someone quick please. >> does he look hurt to you? >> we understand that the local fbi office has been in contact with the local authorities and monitoring the situation. >> no justice. >> no peace. >> protests and marches continue today. in washington, chicago and st. louis. >> don't talk to us like we're stupid. don't talk to us like we're ignora ignorant. we love our children like you love yours. >> a day after the an ford, florida, police chief stepped down temporarily, the city manager assigned two cops to run the department for now. >> i stand by the sanford police department, its personnel and
the investigation conducted in regards to the trayvon martin case, it is apparent my presence is overshadowing the process. >> i think every parent in america should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this. but my main message is to the parents of trayvon martin. if i had a son, he'd look like trayvon. >> a dramatic day in central florida involving one of the most controversial police investigations in our nation. the neighborhood watch captain george zimmerman is now in custody. and he faces a second-degree murder charge. >> today we filed an information charging zimmerman with murder. >> we wanted an arrest and we got it. >> i think he's troubled by the fact that the state decided to charge him. he's concerned about getting a fair trial. and a fair presentation. >> we are learning more
information about the night martin was killed and medical report reeventualing that george zimmerman suffered several injuries in the alleged scuffle that he said drove him to shoot the unarmed teen. >> reports of a closed fracture on zimmerman's nose, two black eyes, two lacerations on the back of his head, bruising to the upper lip and cheek and not diagnosed with a concussion. >> is there anything you regret? do you regret getting out of the car to follow trayvon that night? >> no, sir. >> do you regret that you had a gun that night? >> no, sir. >> do you feel you wouldn't be here for this interview if you didn't have that gun? >> no, sir. >> more than a year since trayvon martin was killed, george zimmerman walking in to the courtroom as opening statements in his second-degree murder trial are about to begin. >> george zimmerman did not shoot trayvon martin because he had to. he shot him for the worst of all reasons. because he wanted to. >> trayvon martin armed himself
with the concrete sidewalk. and used it to smash george zimmerman's head. so when you're then talking with mr. crump, in this reported interview, for the first time ever being asked to tell the story about what you knew, you're in a hurry and among the things that you chose not to say was that before the phone cut off but after the bump you heard trayvon martin say get off, get off? >> yes, sir. >> the person who you now know to be trayvon martin was on top, correct? >> correct. >> he was raining down blows on george zimmerman, right? >> that's what it looked like. >> do you think there's anything wrong with him following him to see where he was going? >> legally speaking, no. >> you hope your son trayvon martin would not done anything to lead to his own death.
correct? >> what i hope for is that this would never have happened and he would still be here. >> i can't see him. i don't want to go out there. i don't know what's going on. >> they're sending them. >> do you know whose voice that was background? >> yes, sir. >> whose voice was that? >> my son george. >> and who do you recognize that to be, ma'am? >> trayvon benjamin martin. >> georgy. >> my brother. >> trayvon's? >> yes. >> there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that is george zimmerman. >> after consulting with counsel, not to testify, your honor. >> if this person, this mannequin, were carrying a firearm on their waist, where would the gun be right now in relation to me? >> would be at your left inner thigh. >> were the injuries on mr. zimmerman's back of his head consistent with someone doing this? on cement. >> i don't think so. >> why does this defendant get
out of the car if he thinks that trayvon martin is a threat to him? why? because he's got a gun! equalizer. he's going to take care of it. he's a want to be cop. >> the person that decided that this is going to continue, said it was going to be violent was the guy that didn't go home when he had the chance to. i almost wish that the verdict had guilty, not guilty and completely innocent because i would ask you to check for that one. you have to check the not guilty. check the innocent then, too. >> trayvon martin may not have the defendant's blood on his hands but george zimmerman will forever have trayvon martin's on his. >> our legal panel is back. ted, to you, why has this case enflamed the passions of so many? we have so many cases in the country with white on black, black on white. this is not unusual regrettably.
a tragedy. this happens to be hispanic and black. and yet, this one has just -- i mean, this is fueled just a horrible, horrible -- i mean, gotten so many people enraged. >> greta, this has the chemistry of politics, the legal aspect, the law enforcement, the criminal justice system. if it wasn't for ben crump and daryl parks this would have been just another case that i believe had gone by the wayside and just another dead black kid and i think that they're the ones who asked the public to come out and be engaged in and to look in to this and necessary and justified. i don't know whether this man is guilty or innocent. but i do believe the family wanted one thing. justice for trayvon and justice would have been just what's happening in that courthouse in the back of us. a trial. >> jim, to you. we have people get targeted in this country. i mean, i have had clients where they have murdered people because they looked rich and it
was a bad armed robbery and people killed. think oar targeted because they look like they're successful. there are horrible scenarios yet this one has enflamed many people and it's a terrible tragedy but why this one? >> well, i think it says something, at the core of this is something troubling and factual about america and that is, i'm not saying zimmerman's a racist. if you're a young, black man in america walking the streets, you are perceived as suspicious by many americans. it's a horrible reality if you're a young, black man and plays in to the it's a horrible reality. and so this plays in to the worst fears of many especially in the african-american community and white folks, as well, like me. are you suspicious because of your race? >> it's not about what it's
about. the problem is black men in the society are over profiled, over charged, over searched, over sentenced, over prosecuted. all of this is absolutely true. there's horrible racial bias in the system and doesn't do much good to lower the bar to convict one white guy. >> people are morphed it in to a white on black thing. >> they certainly have. >> not that -- i mean, we still have a trial going on with someone who's dead. a young man dead and someone on trial and then morphed and set people on fire. >> we shouldn't look at a conviction. all we want is a fair trial and that's what i think is gotten back there and that's what all -- let me speak to blacks and whites in america. getting a fair trial. that's what mr. zimmerman deserves and what trayvon martin deserves. we don't need the riot and the crap in the street. >> hear, hear. stay with us. up next, a much-talked about
judge deborah nelson. is she out of line or no nonsense? what she told geoff: i'm the kind of guy who doesn't like being sold to. the last thing i want is to feel like someone is giving me a sales pitch, especially when it comes to my investments. you want a broker you can trust. a lot of guys at the other firms seemed more focused on selling than their clients. that's why i stopped working at my old brokerage and became a financial consultant with charles schwab. avo: what kind of financial consultant are you looking for? talk to us today. [ herbie ] eh, hold on brent, what's this? mmmm, nice car. there's no doubt, that's definitely gonna throw him off. she's seen it too. oh this could be trouble. [ sentra lock noise ] oh man. gotta think fast, herbie. back pedal, back pedal. [ crowd cheering ] oh, he's down in flames and now the ice-cold shoulder. one last play... no, game over! gps take him to the dog house.
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for us. for everyone. forever. deciding a verdict is exclusively your job. i cannot participate in that decision in any way. please disregard anything i may have said or done that made you think i preferred one verdict or another. >> so did judge deborah nelson appear to take sides? she was taking heat for testy exchanges with the charges from time to time. especially one defense lawyer. let's go first to you, bernie. fair judge? >> greta, let's back up to the beginning of the last segment. your producers put together what i thought was an excellent clip of this case from beginning to end and now to answer your question, yeah, she was favorable to the state. you saw her mixing it up with mr. west and his colleague there time and time again.
however, no different than all of us judges. they're there to super vise the battle and watch us. we're in the battle. i'm not saying judges don't work hard. ted knows federal judge on the bench. all of us do it. up at 4:00 in the morning. court until 5:00 and back to the office until 11:00. same thing the next day. greta, you did it, too. >> jim, your thought. i just want to say i was critical of this judge and questioned the defendant before the defense is over about whether or not he'd testify. she should do it at the conclusion. that was outside the hearing of the jury as a fact finder. it's important to note the criticism, did she do something in front of the jury or not? that was not in front of the jury. >> it wasn't. listen. the most important question at the end of the day is did zimmerman get a fair trial? i i think he did clearly. in terms of the judge, bernie's
done it. you should go right up to that line. throw punches for your client staying within the ethical realms. i have fought with judges and wagged my finger at a judge throwing out a murder conviction and later reinstated by the supreme court. this is a fight. this is combat basically within ethical rules and doesn't surprise me that people get cross sometimes. i think she is a pretty good judge. >> we only have 30 seconds. if there's a conviction, different judges are known for being long hitters in terms of heavy sentence. what in general is this judge's reputation? manslaughter, is she a heavy hitting judge, medium or low? >> i would say the reputation from medium to hard. there's going to be a very fair sentencing hearing and both sides bring out everything they can and make a decision but not a soft sentencer by any stretch of the imagination.
>> self defense, murder or something else? what's the possible verdicts and sentences to face? the panel will break it down when our liv excuse me, sir i'm gonna have to ask you to power down your little word game. i think your friends will understand. oh...no, it's actually my geico app...see? ...i just uh paid my bill. did you really? from the plane? yeah, i can manage my policy, get roadside assistance, pretty much access geico 24/7. sounds a little too good to be true sir. i'll believe that when pigs fly. ok, did she seriously just say that? geico. just a click away with our free mobile app.
i know you've answered this before, but in case we've forgoten it. >> life in florida is natural life meaning we do not have parole. >> greta: so automatic murder 2, gone for life? >> well, 25 year minimum mandatory. best case you get 25 years, worst case, you get life which is natural life. manslaughter in low end of 12 years. high end is 30 because there is a firearm. so it's also serious so you've got serious scary stuff he's looking at. >> greta: lawyers on both sides, i mean they have a responsibility but being a defense lawyer knowing tonight your client could be going away, it's tough. >> i, i can tell you doing trials i don't eat, i don't sleep. i don't do anything but conten trait on the market very someone's life in my hand.
i was interested today he seemed to argue strongly against second degree murder. but he barely touch that had underline offense of manslaughter chi found interesting. >> greta: i don't blame him. jim i thought the prosecutor didn't do much arguing for murder in the second degree but rather focused on manslaughter. if he gets that, that is 30 years on the top. >> i think the prosecutor made a huge, smart decision. he said he killed this young man because he wanted to. that was a tough road. he didn't have evidence for that. he made the shift. going for manslaughter. i think there is a real chance, juries at the end of the day they want to do justice. i think there is a possibility the jury says well a young man without a gun this, guy had a gun. they want to find compromise.
i think the prosecution has some chance of saving the case. so smart to vote for that. >> bernie that is, i think the defense attorney most worried about that tonight. do you agree? >> you and i know, and jim on the other side we hate we're called lesser included offenses because it results in a compromise that. is why the jury ends up. jim is right, too. in talking to jurors after case that's won or lost four person four jurors say do you know what? we wanted to walk away saying we did the right thing but i'm telling when you a jury is out and you hear the phone ring, your heart just stops. >> in some communities they're used to a big wall not particularly chummy. chummy here? >> no. no. we consider these folks carpet baggers they're not our own.
they kicked our own out of the sand pile. we want to have our chumz here in this game to fight with us. they brought in out of towner wez don't like it at all. normally there is decent relationships in murder cases between prosecutors and defense lawyers in this case, no love lost. not good. >> greta: panel, thank you. >> thank you. >> happy birthday, mom. >> up next a look ahead to tomorrow, is tomorrow the big tomorrow, is tomorrow the big day for the verdict? you make a great team. it's been that way since e day you met. but your erectile dysfunction - itld be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you cabe more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause unsafe drop in blood pressure.
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be sthour stay with fox news for the latest on the zimmerman trial. make sure you go to gretawir gretawire.com. we have a new question there for you. court is in session, new l this is a fox news alert. the fate of george zimmerman is now in the hands of six female jurors. they have been deliberating around two and a half hours. just moments ago asked their first question of the judge regarding an inventory list of evidence. greta vansusteren is in sanford, florida and was in court for closing arguments. she joins us now. catch us up on what happened when the jurors came back. >> reporter: the jurors want -- they're so overwhelmed with evidence, sitting in a jury room, six of them, looking at each other, trying to figure out what to do, don't know what evidence they have. they asked for inventory. i don't know why the judge didn't do it or the lawyers